Go Back   Your Family Tree Forum > The Your Family Tree Forum > Seeking & Look-ups

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-07-2012, 10:16 PM
harpman harpman is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Suffolk, England
Posts: 9
Default Graham - brickwall help

Hi All I would like to throw this brickwall to the forum, and see if anyone can help with info on where to look, or answers.

John Joseph Walter Kilvington Graham was my grandfather, according to a family member he ran away and joined the army underage, his father and mother sought him out and 'bought him out'. he was living with family in Gateshead at the time around 1901, so assume he went local to Durham or Northumberland Regiment. I haven't researched this yet.

Then on 3rd June 1902 he did another runner to Richmond, Yorks and joined (underage only 16ryrs) the East Yorkshire Regiment. Did his training and on 6th Jan 1903 was transferred to 2nd East Yorkshire Regiment.

I then found his surviving service record (great excitement) on Ancestry Website within that is a document from Huddersfield Magistrate to East Yorkshire Regiment with a 'stoppage of pay' order for the support of his wife and child. His wife was called Harriet Montgomery no name for the child, address: West Riding Hotel, Buxton Rd, Huddersfield.

I have been unable to find any record of a Harriet Montgomery marrying a John Graham, or any info on a Harriet Montgomery which might point to her.
Does anyone know anything about army procedures and if any more information regarding pay and pay stoppages could still be filed at East Yorkshire Regiment, and where to try.


Then on the 9th July 1906 he married my grandmother Susanna Jane Horner, I have their wedding certificate so I know that took place, what I'm not sure about is the first marriage. Looking at the time scale did he divorce from his first marriage before entering into the second. He was certainly moving quickly in a very short time scale !!!

Look forward to hearing from you

Steve
Harpman
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-10-2012, 01:54 PM
amanda0901's Avatar
amanda0901 amanda0901 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire
Posts: 144
Default

Hi, Steve

What does it say regarding his marital status on his marriage certificate? Can't find any reord of a Harriet Montgomery marrying a Hughes BUT I did find a Helen marrying an Edmund in Barrow-in-Furness in 1903!

As he was only 20 at the time of his "2nd" marriage, I think it may be that he & Harriet weren't married at all, and she adopted the honorific "Mrs" to prevent scandal! It could also be that Harriet had already been married and either left her husband for John, or been widowed. This may explain why she cannot be found in the records, as she would be under her maiden name.

Can you post the link for his Ancestry military records as I can't find it at the moment!

Best wishes
Amanda
__________________
Researching Smith (of Herefordshire), Wardill, Blades, Driver, Powick, Stammers, Wainwright, Sheffield, Denton
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-13-2012, 05:28 PM
harpman harpman is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Suffolk, England
Posts: 9
Default

Hi Amanda, thanks for the helpful suggestions and taking the time to do some investigating, sorry about delay posting back have been away this weekend.

On the marriage certificate of his second marriage it says " Bachelor ". He also put he was 23 yrs old, when he was clearly 20 yrs old, perhaps he really had no idea of his date of birth.
Can I query did you mean "Can't find any record of a Harriet Montgomery marrying a Graham" rather than a Hughes ?
like you I had also wondered if Harriet and John (first marriage) were married. I kept going back to thinking they were because I would have assumed if she was chasing him for pay stoppages she would have had to produce evidence for Huddersfield Magistrates Office that she was indeed married to John Graham. And similarly he would have been looking for ways of not paying by saying he wasn't married.

I have his military record on Ancestry but I'm not sure how to post a link to here. There is a facility on Ancestry to post a record to Facebook, or send via email though.

Best regards
Steve
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-14-2012, 12:21 PM
amanda0901's Avatar
amanda0901 amanda0901 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire
Posts: 144
Default

Hi, Steve

I've found his service record, and although the order does state "Wife", it's a pre-printed form, so they probably just used that. It's also interesting that the wife's surname is Montgomery, not Graham. I can't find any record of a Harriet Graham marrying a Montgomery within that timeframe, so I really don't think they were married. Divorce at that time was VERY hard to get and VERY expensive so I don't see that as feasible.

You could try East Yorkshire Archives at Beverley - they might have some information. Or West Yorks Archives regarding the Magistrate's Order, if it was issued in Huddersfield.

Good luck with your search, Steve, and let me know how you get on!

Best wishes
Amanda

(Sorry, meant Helen Montgomery marrying an Edmund Graham - don't know where the "Hughes" came in!)
__________________
Researching Smith (of Herefordshire), Wardill, Blades, Driver, Powick, Stammers, Wainwright, Sheffield, Denton
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-16-2012, 09:21 PM
harpman harpman is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Suffolk, England
Posts: 9
Default

Hi Amanda, once again thanks for taking the time to delve a little deeper. Well spotted with the pre-printed stoppages form. On his service record the wife mentioned (what would have been his 2nd) and children are all the family I know in Northumberland, so I think you're right about the first marriage not happening. I am still quite new to family research, so have just done a little reading on divorce.

The address Harriet Montgomery put down on the form, I did some research around " West Riding Hotel, Buxton Rd, Huddersfield ". in the hope that perhaps her father ran it or she worked there, etc but nothing seemed to drop into place, sadly, maybe I'll revisit that angle again.

I'm going to take your advice and contact the two archive departments and see if anything comes up, and certainly will let you know if I uncover anything.

Best regards
Steve
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-17-2012, 12:05 PM
amanda0901's Avatar
amanda0901 amanda0901 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire
Posts: 144
Default

Hi, Steve

The West Riding Hotel was a pub, I believe, so she may have been working there and living-in. The only Harriet Montgomery in Huddersfield at the time that I can find was born in 1877, married and living in Dale Street with her husband and 2 children, Archie (4) and Doris (1). To muddy things further, she might not have anything to do with Huddersfield originally - she may have gone there where no-one knew her to escape the "shame" of having an illegitimate child........let's hope the archives shed some light on her!

Also, you could try posting on the Huddersfield & District Family History Society website - maybe their members can help.

http://www.hdfhs.org.uk/[/

Also, at the time of John's marriage to Susanna, he was not "of full age", so he could have lied deliberately so as to marry without his parents' consent, or to keep up the pretense from when he joined the army underage! Ancestors, eh?

Good luck!

Best wishes
Amanda
__________________
Researching Smith (of Herefordshire), Wardill, Blades, Driver, Powick, Stammers, Wainwright, Sheffield, Denton

Last edited by amanda0901; 05-17-2012 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Missed a bit out!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-21-2012, 09:42 PM
harpman harpman is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Suffolk, England
Posts: 9
Default

Hi Amanda, thanks for the added info, I suppose another possibility is Harriet followed him there just to catch up with him and have the court order served and was staying at the West Riding Hotel while things were sorted out.

I'll have to contact the Huddersfield and District FHS and see if something develops there. Thanks for the link.

Getting married when not of full age goes with the rest of his reputation, one member of my family in Northumberland can remember him, he was very much a 'firebrand' character !!

Best regards
Steve
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBulletin