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Old 06-07-2011, 12:26 AM
peb21 peb21 is offline
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Default missing Bryant children

I would be grateful for any suggestions as to what might have happened to two children. The first girl is Jemima Bryant born 1847 in St Pancras, she appears on the 1851 census then I cannot find her. The other girl is Mary born 1857 St Lukes, I have found a Mary working in the Flying Horse oxford st aged 16 in the 1871 census there is also a William Bryant (I don't know where he fits in) so am not sure if this could be the one I am after. Mary is still about as she has signed as a witness on her brother John's marriage cert.

I must admit I am not really sure if I have the right Bryant family, as the census are sometimes quite confusing. This side of the family are being a right pain, I am following John Bryant born in 1849 (although by his marriage cert his age works out as 1847?) he married a Sarah Whitman in 1867, he was a Mat Maker as was his father
if I have the correct family his father's occupation only states this on the 1871 census as the 1861 states he is a smith tinman and the 1851 states he was a Thong maker? (whatever that is)
I have also noticed that where is states Reg district this is almost different on every census, so I cannot get a precise place of where they were born. Sorry if I sound like a real moaner but it's mainly frustration. John and Sarah never put their children on the census so most of the info I have is family info passed down.

I would be grateful for any suggestion. Thank you.
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:05 AM
ciderdrinker ciderdrinker is offline
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Hi there,
Had a quick look on ancestry anf found somethings for Jemmima but not yet Mary Ann,will look for more on her latter.
For a start here are the three children's baptisms at St Andrew Holborn in 1852(all different birth years).
In 1861 Mary and her two daughter are under Bryan on ancestry at 6 Francis St Islington 129 13 20.
I can't find Jemmima's marriage but ancestry somehow bring a suggestion of Jemima Ratchford wife of Thomas up for the next censuses and it does seem to fit. 1871 (263 31 57) and 1881( 34 35 23).Jemmima is 24 on the 1871 and Thomas 34 a greengrocer.
Jemima E Ratchford dies at Islington 1a 86 Dec 1898 but born 1843.

All for now but will look further when have time.

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Old 06-07-2011, 12:09 PM
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PeeGee PeeGee is offline
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I see that Mary declares herself a widow in 1861 and there is a death for John Bryant - Islington 1b 136 March 1857 (the right district?).

John Bryant, b. St Pancras 1848 is at Waterloo St, St Luke in 1871 (RG10/402/50/23) and is a Whip Maker. A Google for Thong Maker references Whip Makers - co-incidence, I think not.
Elizabeth, b.Birmingham 1847
John, b. London 1870
Sarah James, b. Wiltshire 1858 (sister-in-law)

Edit: The same family are in Aston, Warks in 1881 and John/Elizabeth are both Whip Thong Makers.

Scott (Norton St Philip/Grittleton/Exeter/Swansea)
Meyrick (Taibach/Swansea); Fox (Shepton Mallet/Bristol/Morriston); Jones (Southwick/Trowbridge); Gregory (Rothley/Barsby)
Turner (Langford, Oxon/Morriston), Creese (Bristol), Blackmore (Wellington, Som./Bristol)

Last edited by PeeGee; 06-07-2011 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:48 PM
ciderdrinker ciderdrinker is offline
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Had another look at this.
I went back to John Bryant senior mat maker and I think you are right that John Bryant thomg maker is not the right one and therefore the baptisms I found this morning are wrong.
Here are two census's I found for John and Mary mat maker which seem to suggest there are two couples.
1851 Wellesley St St Luke 1521 25 42
John 25 Hearth rug maker Surrey st George
Mary 25 St Lukes
Abigail 3 (bur 13.4.1851 st Luke's age 2yrs 9 mths)
John 1

1871 10 Grapet ST Tottenham crt 208 43 19
John 45 mat maker St Luke
Mary 44
Edward 8 clerkenhall
Elizabeth 17 St Lukes

There is a possible burial for John Senior age 84 13.4.1910 Camberwell bur Forest Hill but I can't find any marriages on Ancestry for the children and there are two births for Edward ,so not much help I afraid.
They really area problem.Will look a bit further but don't hold out much luck.


ps 1861 William 7 and John 9 are possibly at Lambeth Norwood Industrial school for boys 367 169 2.
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:24 PM
ciderdrinker ciderdrinker is offline
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Last from me I promise.
If you do think yours are the whip makers then there is another baptism for a Robert Enoch 25.12 1852 born 8.12 1852 same address St Andrew Holborn.
And on the 1841 census Camden Town 8 32 5923 are
John 40 whip maker
Maria 46 ?
John 20 whip maker
William 15
Thomas 8 months
Mary 15
Ellen 13
iet 7
Caroline 4
Thomas 20 hatter.

Jemima Elizabeth Boryant born GRO June 1946 1 294 Pancras

Sorry I can't find any more

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Old 06-07-2011, 02:30 PM
peb21 peb21 is offline
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Posts: 37
Default missing Bryant children

Thank you both for your reply's.

I did find the baptism you have mentioned. I didn't think they were right as I found that Mary Ann died 1852, and would they have called another child later on Mary Ann as well.
The 1851 you have Ciderdrinker seems to make more sense, so a big thank you for that. I have the 1861 census for them(I believe) which lists John 36, Mary 36, John 12, Elizabeth 8, Mary 4 and Louisa 1 (she died in 1864) at 47 Whiskin st Clerkenwell. This seems to make more sense to me as both Elizabeth and Mary are witnesses on John's marriage cert.

Thank you PeeGee, but I have John on the 1871 census so the Mary you have is not the one I am after.

It's a shame I cannot pinpoint the family birth's better but there are several John Bryant's around the time and place's mentioned, and the census are not proving to be a lot of help.
The other problem I have is that John and Sarah never listed their children on the census, so apart from a daughter Sarah 1875 (great grandmother), I do not know if there are any other children ( a talk to the mother-in-law coming on, but at 92 she gets very confused with names etc)
This side of the family belongs to my husband and it has had nothing but problems, from children being in the Lambeth workhouse with no know parents and people deserting from the Army and changing their names.
Once again Thank You

Last edited by peb21; 06-07-2011 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:23 PM
Sue B Sue B is offline
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Re your query re whether the parents would name a younger child after an elder one that had died? Well, yes, it was quite common for this to happen - I have come across several families who did this. One reason could be that children were often named after relatives - there was a 'naming pattern' that can be seen clearly in some families. So if a child named for maternal grandmother died then it wasn't thought unusual to name the next daughter to be born the same name so that the maternal grandmother still had a namesake. Another reason it may have been done was as a 'remembrance' of the earlier, lost, child

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